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jamc1743
Congressional Page
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 1
Location: USA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: Jatropha Biodiesel |
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I am a student and started researching biofuels. Safeway opened a biofuel station near Seattle last week but before we get too deep into the wrong alternatives, I think we should look at other options. I have been reading a lot about jatropha and the biodiesel it is capable of producing. There are several pluses to jatropha over ethanol. It is not edible so it will not have conflicting purposes unlike crops used to create ethanol. Jatropha also has the highest energy payback of any biofuel along with several other advantages. Gold Star Biodiesel has begun production of jatropha biodiesel. They are an American company with their production being done in Ghana. I attached an interesting article to the word "Jatropha" above.
Please respond to let me know what you think and whatever else you know about jatropha compared to other biofuels. |
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Freakin
Mayor's Aide
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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This is VERY interesting. I hadn't even heard of jatropha before today.
I'm thinking my next car is going to be one that can run on biodiesel.
On big advantage to jatropha, it appears, is that using it for fuel is not displacing crops meant for food. It can grow where conventional agriculture fails, and it would basically only be produced for fuel. |
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deportliberals
Congressman
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: Re: Jatropha Biodiesel |
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| jamc1743 wrote: | | It is not edible so it will not have conflicting purposes unlike crops used to create ethanol. |
Actually, jatropha "would" compete with other food crops if it was developed on a large scale as an alternative fuel. The reason for this is "soil depletion." For example, an acre of soil must be given a rest(not used) for a season or two where commercial crops are concerned. This means one(maybe two years) of plantings then the soil must be rested...no growing! In short, good soil is a finite resource just like oil.
Imagine the economic competition for large tracts of decent soil in an ever-expanding market for soil-produced diesel and soil-produced ethanol. The sad fact about alternative fuels produced from dirt is that we simply cannot grow our way out of increased demand for fuel...not enough soil.
Whenever you start looking at any alternative energy sources, you should first know the basics of what is required TODAY to run this country...you really need this perspective in order to understand the problems with so-called alternate fuels.
Go to the Dept of Energy web site and learn, for example, that this country needs 20 million barrels of oil per day in order to sustain its economy, provide for its defense and continiue its standard of living.
Next, you'll learn, that less than 20% of each 44 gal barrel of crude is ever refined into gas for our cars, trucks, etc. Most americans stupidly believe
that the entire barrel or the majority of a barrel of crude is refined into gasoline...simply not true. Once you have a basic picture about how much oil this country needs just to maintain its current standards, then(and only then) will you be able to discern an alternate energy "fad" from a genuine alternate energy possibility. |
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Freakin
Mayor's Aide
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| One of the advantages to Jetropha according to that article was that it doesn't consume the same good soils that food crops do. It can be planted in formerly 'useless' areas of land. |
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deportliberals
Congressman
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Freakin wrote: | | One of the advantages to Jetropha according to that article was that it doesn't consume the same good soils that food crops do. It can be planted in formerly 'useless' areas of land. |
Yes...but the fact that it is a plant means it will deplete essential minerals in any soil. Food crops are big depleters of soil and plantings have to be rotated in order to save the soil.
For argument's sake let's say that Jetropha doesn't deplete any soil, period. We are still left how much land will be sacrificed to produce bio-diesel .vs how much land will be sacrificed to produce ethanol . vs how much land will be sacrificed to produce food, etc. Does anyone know how much land it takes produce one gallon of bio-diesel??? Remember, this nation needs 20 million barrels of crude per day to run its economic engine. How much land will it take for Jetropha make a dent in that number...is it really practicle is the question...this is where alternative fuels usually fail. |
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Freakin
Mayor's Aide
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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But isn't the whole idea that it's not replacing other forms of crops? New companies will acquire new plots of formerly 'useless' land that they will manage and rotate as needed. It doesn't seem to me like it will affect any other crops if it is only being used for biodiesel.
I completely agree that biodiesel isn't anywhere close to supplementing oil in any real way for probably several decades. We need to improve our efficiency with what we are already using instead of just trying to get it from other sources. |
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deportliberals
Congressman
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Freakin wrote: | But isn't the whole idea that it's not replacing other forms of crops? New companies will acquire new plots of formerly 'useless' land that they will manage and rotate as needed. It doesn't seem to me like it will affect any other crops if it is only being used for biodiesel.
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Don't lose sight of the fact that in the case of bio-fuels, we're trying to transition from oil-based fuels that use very small footprints of land to extract fossil fuel to plant-based fuels that require very LARGE footprints of land. To make any sizeable dent in our daily requirement of fuel, thousands of acres of land must be set aside in order for bio-processed fuels to be practical. Since land is a finite resource, this could mean certain trade offs in what is/is not planted. Since the 1940s, the U.S. gov't has paid farmers NOT to plant certain crops and the gov't has also paid farmers to plant certain crops. There will definitely be "land-use issues" where bio-fuels are concerned.
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I completely agree that biodiesel isn't anywhere close to supplementing oil in any real way for probably several decades. We need to improve our efficiency with what we are already using instead of just trying to get it from other sources. |
You're right....BUT don't forget that this country sits atop billions of gallons of its own oil. In addition to areas like ANWR and "new" off-shore sites, we have three states in the northwest that sit atop billions of gallons of oil shale. The U.S. Geological Survey Inst estimates that these three states alone have more than three times the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. Extracting oil from oil shale involves old inexpensive technology. Adolf Hitler ran half his entire army off oil shale back in the 1940s. |
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deportliberals
Congressman
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Freakin:
Here is the reality of what I've been saying about bio-fuel crops competing against food crops and the land use issues involved.
An Associated Press report released just minutes ago is reporting that ethanol blended fuels consumed 20% of last year's corn crop which is now driving up costs for all U.S. meat producers. Next year, ethanol fuels are expected to consume 25% of our corn crop driving up food costs further.
BTW...biodiesel already consumes 23% of our soybean crop.
Here's the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_on_bi_ge/crop_report
As I said before, we cannot grow our way out of fuel supply problems. We must start drilling our own oil resources...that(and only that) will
give us an immediate increase in fuel supply and thus cause an immediate decrease in the price of fuel. |
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Freakin
Mayor's Aide
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| deportliberals wrote: | Freakin:
Here is the reality of what I've been saying about bio-fuel crops competing against food crops and the land use issues involved.
An Associated Press report released just minutes ago is reporting that ethanol blended fuels consumed 20% of last year's corn crop which is now driving up costs for all U.S. meat producers. Next year, ethanol fuels are expected to consume 25% of our corn crop driving up food costs further.
BTW...biodiesel already consumes 23% of our soybean crop.
Here's the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_on_bi_ge/crop_report
As I said before, we cannot grow our way out of fuel supply problems. We must start drilling our own oil resources...that(and only that) will
give us an immediate increase in fuel supply and thus cause an immediate decrease in the price of fuel. |
well sounds good to me. maybe we should get some tips from the emerging chinese automobile industry, which already has better fuel efficiency for it's new cars than the US is expected to achieve by 2015. |
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deportliberals
Congressman
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 716
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Freakin wrote: |
well sounds good to me. maybe we should get some tips from the emerging chinese automobile industry, which already has better fuel efficiency for it's new cars than the US is expected to achieve by 2015. |
Yes...but that's comparing apples to organges. China has a population of a billion, the U.S. 300 million. China's economy is NOT free and therefore the State dictates what kinds of cars will be built. The U.S. market is FREE and is driven by consumer demand and it is consumer purchasing(not the state) that determines which cars will be produced. You cannot compare China's(gov'ts) car production mandates to America's free market mandates for car production. Makes no sense! They are opposites!
Besides, most of the C02 that gets into our atmosphere does NOT come from cars...a scieintific fact that the mainstream media refuses to publish. |
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